| Questions | Answers |
|---|---|
| What kind of snacks were in the break room? | Depends on the room, but the basics were granola bars, cookies, liquorish bites, kettle chips, pop chips, pretzel bites, hard boiled eggs, cereal, nuts, chex mix, coffee and tea. |
| Thanks for the actual answer man, good luck finding a new job! | I love that this is the top rated question! |
| Licorice or liquor-ish? | Yes... |
| Do you have have unlimited energy on all the Zynga games? | Nope. We had to pay like everyone else. |
| could just update the live database ;-) | True. But why would you if you were on a live team? If you're on a team that has gone live, then you've probably been playing that game for almost a year before it's hit the public market. At that point, you don't care. You know the game inside and backwards. Yeah, you can give yourself unlimited energy, but who gives a shit? |
| What (if anything) do you think they did right as a company? | They really try hard to keep morale high. They give so many perks that you really get accustomed to it. I ate two out of three meals for free at work every day. It was awesome. And they provided healthy options! They promoted volunteering. Going green. They really tried hard to be a good place to work and a socially conscious company. In that way, they're really great. |
| On the games side of things I think their whole concept of pulling data on everything players do is amazing. However their over reliance on that is not so amazing. It made the development very analytical, and less intuitive. It's easy to tell when a game is fun. It's hard to pull data on that though. | |
| Do you think they have a sound business strategy? i mean its doubtful if they are laying off so many people but i just assumed they would be making a killing. edit removed second question because i all of a sudden learned to read haha. | Oh hell no. Their business strategy is terrible. |
| Their major issues are the inability to adjust to the changing market. They did great when Facebook gaming was on the rise, but now it's declining and Mobile is on the rise. They're trying to change over, but employ too many of the same game development "best practices" that were developed for Facebook games. These just don't translate to the mobile market, which is why they're suffering in that market. | |
| There's also lots of other issues internally. | |
| A lot of micro-management from the top down that stifles the creativity and hinders the production of many games. | |
| An over reliance on every game being a blockbuster hit which makes the fun aspect of games suffer while making the money grabbing tactics all too transparent to the users. | |
| And a serious lack of foresight over all. Too many major decisions are quick reactions to sudden changes in the market. If some games jumps to the top of the Top Grossing charts then everyone need to drop everything and change to follow it. Which wastes time, makes for bad design and ultimately puts projects behind schedule. It just means they're always late to the party, and whatever game they're trying to compete with has already faded away by the time their own version hits the market. | |
| They rely too much on reacting to what is making money now, and too much on their own data. They don't strive to make anything new or innovative and that's no way to excel in the games market. You need to lead the pack, not try emulate the best practices of top games with the hopes that you can out perform and already established IP. | |
| What percent of users actually pay real money in Zynga games? | Depends on the game, but on average I think it's about 5%. Maybe less. |
| Thinking about it though, that's a lot of people and a lot of money. | The big games deal in Millions of DAU (Daily Average Users). If 3 million users pay an average of $0.20 you're getting $600k a day! |
| That's huge numbers!! | |
| What are the benefits of working at Zynga? | Lots of perks, like a gym in the building, three free meals a day, happy hour every Friday with free booze, unlimited vacation days. Not everyone takes advantage of them all. I loved getting a free 15 minute massage once a week. |
| Companies that have all the cool shit on campus out in the building are trying to make sure you don't leave, I've heard. Tears down the necessary work/life separation people need. Hopefully zynga are cool about people going home on time. | Exactly. We also had a campus in an area of SF that had very little around it. So the temptation to eat out was minimal. |
| How do you feel about the revolving door mentality for employees working in a lot of development studios (basically as soon as the game gets done there is a mass layoff)? | It's the worst aspect of working in the industry, easily. It's an unstable industry and you have to accept that you're going to lose your job, and change companies multiple times throughout your career. |
| Some people in normal industries can get a job, work there for 40 years and retire. That's virtually impossible in the games industry. | |
| I know you say "some people", but to be fair, you'd be hard pressed to find a job for life (or 40 years) in pretty much any industry. Unless you were born into it. | True. This is less common these days. I grew up thinking you'd work in one place your whole life, retire at 60, yada yada yada. Not the case. Especially in the games industry. |
| Do you know any dirty secrets or scandals about the company ? | Nothing that probably hasn't already been reported. I think the worst during my time was the law suit against the c-staff for insider knowledge. When the company went public the shares were $10. At their peak they were $15 and the c-staff had a special clause that allowed them to sell early. They sold something like 15 or 20% of their shares when the stocks were at their highest. By the time employees could sell for the first time it had dropped to $8 a share. After that window closed, the stock price had dropped to $4 or $5 by the next time employees could sell. I guess the investors were pissed that the top brass made out like bandits and everyone else got screwed. |
| Did they offer separation package? Hope you find another position soon!! | Yep. I can't say for sure that everyone got what I did. But I got four months salary plus an additional week for each partial year. I worked almost two years, so I got 4.5 months paid. Plus insurance is paid on top of that. |
| Damn, thats pretty awesome. Were you in a management position? | Nope. Not at all. |
| Just how prolific is their theft of other games? | That's a broad question. But it varies. They got a lot better recently. After The Ville got sued by EA it was much less okay to "fast follow" a game (The term for copying a game). |
| I think that early on it was blatant. Later it became well known practice at Zynga, but rather poor taste. Dream Heights/Tiny Tower was a big slap in the face. Sims Social/The Ville was the last straw. Towards the end of my time it was not so much that games were straight up ripped off, but key features would be. Such as the general method or menu flow that a game handles it's multiplayer. The idea being that if it works for that game, it would work for our game. | |
| In general though, most of us knew what game was copying what. Bubble Safari was a copy of Bubble Witch Saga. The Ville was Sims Social. Hidden Chronicles was Gardens of Time. The company didn't call it out for what it was, but you knew because whatever project you were on most likely had similar pressures to match and beat a game on the market. | |
| Did you have a feeling previously that you were going to be laid off? Are they providing you benefits to help find another job? Also, I wish you the best in your new career search! | I had no idea this was coming. Totally out of the blue. I knew things weren't great at the company but I wasn't expecting layoffs at this point and I wasn't expecting to be part of it if it did happen. I did get a nice severance package and benefits. So I'm pretty well set for a while and I have a lot of friends and former co-workers in other parts of the industry. So I've got a lot of leads already. |
| Why do you think you were one of the laid-off people? Was it random or were you involved in a failed or not-so-successful project? | For me I know that I was low-man on the totem pole. I was a valuable and well like person in my team. My boss is actively attempting to find me a new job. But the fact is that the few people on my team were crucial to continued development, where as I was a support aspect to the team. |
| To add to this, after the previous round, the 5% cut, they seemed to give reassurances that that was a one time thing for the foreseeable future. I'd think that the remaining employees are a lot more wary, now that they've seen what can happen. | So true. The last lay-offs sounded very rare and uncommon the way they presented it to us. Part of the reason I didn't see this coming on Monday. |
| I never played any of their games because I could see everything was a clone or designed to make me buy stuff. Was there anything the staff felt was actually worth playing? | Oh yeah. I mean a lot of the people there genuinely loved the games. I was never really a fan either, but there were some that I played. |
| I think that a lot of freemium games suffer from the obvious fact that they're asking for money. But that's what you get from a free game, right? I mean Zynga wasn't making games to be charitable. It's a business. So the games they provided were free, and most people never paid. And for them that was fine. | |
| I think a lot of gamers look at that with disdain because they hate the idea of paying to win. It takes the sport out of the game and makes it unfair. If I could pay $1 and win a deathmatch round of Halo I'd be a cheating asshole. But that's because everyone playing Halo already dropped $60 to play that game and it's also just not fair. | |
| The playing field for freemium games is different. Farmville isn't a deathmatch. It's a solo grind that requires players to spend time and spam their friends to advance. If you don't want to do either, you can spend a dollar. The general attitude with freemium is that if you're going to pay us, we'll let you skip through the game as fast as you want. Because, who cares? We get the money, and you get to save some time. We both win. | |
| I'm not saying it's for everyone. But there's clearly a market for this kinda gaming. | |
| The real problem is that charging money to let you skip through the game gives developers a direct financial incentive to make horrible, grindy games that people want to skip through. | Not true. The best games are perfectly balanced without it. The transactions just make it more beneficial to the payer. The idea being that all players are equal. A paying player is on the same field of play as a nonpayer. The only difference is how much time a payer puts in vs a non payer. A payer in Clash of Clans can be on equal ground with non-payers. The only difference is that non-payers will spend more of their free time waiting around to finish construction/etc than a paying customer. However crappy game design/balance means you end up with shitty blockers that require micro-transactions or social spamming to continue. |
| It seems like good game balance and progression can't help but go out the window once you have micro-transactions. | |
| We get the money, and you get to save some time. Give us your money and you don't have to play our game. Wat? | No you play the game. you just don't have to wait to continue. |
| I always though zynga was a greedy evil company. but it was more or less based on a gut feeling. Did you ever have these kinds of feelings? Did you notice things and say well this isnt right? I wouldnt blame you for suppressing them. its hard to come to terms with those things sometimes. | I hated Zynga going into the company. I wasn't hired. I was acquired through a studio that was bought by Zynga. I had no love for the company. But over time I learned that the company itself isn't evil. It's the perception of hardcore vocal gamers that think it's evil. |
| Why do people think Zynga is evil? Because they copy the games of smaller developers and do it blatantly and obviously. They've made way more money than those companies did on the same games. Hence: evil. | |
| But evil is a crazy term to apply to any game company. What is evil? | |
| I think we can all agree Hitler is evil. Is Zynga evil? Well, by comparison, no. Maybe they haven't always been the most ethical company. Maybe they took advantage of games that were already on the market. But that's business. It happens all the time. Remember when Pixar made Finding Nemo and Dreamworks made a Sharks Tale? Or when Happy Feet and Surf's Up came out around the same time? | |
| That doesn't mean that I agree with the mentality of copying games. I hated that. I always fought against it where ever I could. But it's like Coke and Pepsi. Someone is always going to try and make the same product and package it under another wrapping. Zynga wasn't as bad as everyone makes them out to be. But the few cases where they were blatantly horrible at it got widely publicized. But most of the games that Zynga published were actually pretty original. They just suffered for other reasons. | |
| How much longer will Zynga be around for? | Hard to say. At this rate, I'd give them another 2 to 3 years. They make money and have a lot in the bank. But they also throw away money like you wouldn't believe. |
| If they actually manage to change their strategy and start putting out some big hits, they could be around a lot longer. | |
| What do you think the odds are that they do change their strategy and end up staying around longer? | I'd give them 10:1. The CEO is hellbent on believing that their current course is the correct course. |
| Do you think they'll get into the real-money online poker market? Online poker will be back eventually, and Jesus H Christ Zynga could rake in tons of money if they made it easy to get their money in. | Commented on this in other replies. But yes, they could if they were first to market. The problem being that other companies have been into Real Money Gambling in other countries for much longer than Zynga. And so it's unlikely for them to be the victors when RMG hits the US. |
| If there are any, were there any games that looked great on paper and you thought was going to be great, but in reality didnt work? | Yes. Honestly most of the games look great on paper. But that's kinda true of every game ever. Ideas are great. But once you play it, sometimes it's not actually as great as it seems. There was one in mobile that was a dragonvale style game. You bred dragons. But it also had an angry birds component. You used the dragons to fire different kinds of fireballs at pirate ships that were encroaching on your territory. In theory it seemed great. Sounded totally fun. In reality it was kind of a Frankenstein of both games and neither part worked because both aspects were tacked on by the executive staff late in the dev cycle. There always seemed to be a lot of games like that. They were 70% awesome. They just needed a little push to make them great. But the teams weren't left alone to make the final adjustments. Someone up top would always feel like they knew what had to be done. So some major (and often uninformed) changes were pushed on the team and they would be forced to change features that would ultimately disrupt the rest of the game and cause the entire project to fail. |
| Are the top brass really as big of assholes as they seem? | In general, they're all fairly good guys. However I think there's a lot of the old c-staff that came to Zynga for the money. They're guys who made a name in the industry working on big games, saw an opportunity to make some big bucks in a new market, hopped in, cashed out and took off. The guys that are still around are doing what they can, but it's kind of like trying to sail a sinking ship. Everyone has ideas on how to change things, and each new change makes more problems. |
| + With regards to developments in Zynga performance and stock price, how did employee perception of the situation change during those periods of time ? + Could you elaborate on infamous game copying. + What was the culture and expectation like initially, did it then evolve ? | I started just as the company was going public. At the time everyone was REALLY excited. For people who had been there for a long time, it meant that a lot of the bonuses they had been accruing would finally pay off. The rest of us were happy to be a part of a company that was gonna hit big and we were on the ground floor... All that quickly dissipated after the stock plummeted from $15 to $8 by the first selling window. Now the stock has lingered around $3 for 8 months. It's kind of a joke. Everyone kinda hopes it will go up, but at the same time everyone knows there's no guarantee. |
| As for the copying, I feel I've touched on that in other comments. But if you have specific additional questions, let me know. | |
| The culture was...weird. At least for me. I've never been a corporate kind of person. So it was hard to adjust. One of the weirder things was the obsession with dogs. | |
| I like dogs. They're great. I grew up with them. Never really wanted to take one to work. But it's highly encouraged there. And kind of obsessed over. Some of the dogs were cool. Some were barking assholes I wanted to punch in the face. It's kind of like a crying baby on an airplane. It sucks, and there's nothing you can do about it. | |
| Beyond all that, the culture had a major dichotomy. There were the people that saw through the bullshit and were there to get a paycheck and take advantage of what was offered. And there were those who loved the company and everything they did and truly believed in the company mission and every game that launched. From my perspective, more people that made the games were in the cynical camp, and more people that worked in the support groups (HR, legal, etc) were in the spirit squads. But that's not a hard rule. | |
| Do you like milk? | No. It upsets my stomach. |
| I heard Zynga is expanding into the gambling sector. Surely there's huge money there. Do you know anything about that? | Yeah, they want to get into real money gambling. Here's the issues... |
| It's been legal in other countries for years. The companies that have been working those markets were the ones to pioneer and legitimize those markets. | |
| Zynga is hopping in late. They have launched RMG (real money gambling) in the countries where it's currently legal, but they're not the first to the market. | |
| They are pushing the legislation to make it legal in the US. But if it passes, there are other companies who have been doing it longer and better than zynga who will jump on the US market first. Zynga might jump on at the same time, but who are you going to trust your real money with? The company that has been managing online casinos for a decade or the company that is trying to jump into it now? | |
| I don't blame Zynga for going after this market, and I honestly believed this could be the saving grace for Zynga. But they are Johnny-come-lately to this market. | |
| In theory, they might be able to make tons of money on RMG. But in reality, there are a dozen other companies that have been doing it longer and better. | |
| Tell us about the highs and lows of departmental competition would you? Wasn't it encouraged by zynga? | It wasn't necessarily encouraged. It wasn't like the midcore division was trying to out perform the casual gaming division. |
| But ultimately you wanted to make a game that went live and made tons of money. If you did you got all the best perks. | |
| There were things that were available to everyone in the company, like the gym and free food. But if you were on a top grossing team then you got additional perks, like trips to Vegas and other off-site excursions. | |
| The problem being that some games inherently had better opportunities for success. Farmville 2 was destined to succeed as it had all the best of the best working on it and every spare dollar thrown at it. Smaller games had to perform at the same level with fewer resources and a smaller time frame. | |
| There was always the chance that your small game could blow up and be huge. But odds were that if you were on a Farmville or Poker game, you were going to do much better than someone on an unproven new IP. | |
| How much rework is done on a video game besides just the remaining of the game? | If I understand you correctly, you're asking how much more work is done beyond just copying a game? |
| I've been to the SF office it's pretty crazy awesome there, is it like that at all their offices? | No. The SF office is the craziest by far. |
| Have you ever heard of zynga going after a company for copying one of their games? | Not off the top of my head, but any game that tried to go live with the "XVille" kind of name got hit by the legal team. If you made a game called Redditville, you'd get a letter from the Zynga legal team. |
| From what I read, Zynga did not focus much on mobile development. What do you think? Would you like to continue in the social gaming industry or you'd prefer to take your creative talents elsewhere? | Well Zynga's major focus now is Mobile. They're just not making a great transition into it. They're great at Facebook games, but it's just not the same thing. |
| I wouldn't mind staying in social gaming. I started in consoles. One thing I really miss is having a physical copy of the product I've helped to create. It's nice being able to grab someone's iPhone and direct them to the game you've made and make them download it for free. But when that game gets cancelled, it no longer exists. ANYWHERE. That's pretty depressing. | |
| I honestly don't care where I work, as long as I enjoy what I'm doing and feel passionate about what I'm making. Mobile...console...As long as someone out there enjoys what I'm creating, I'm happy. | |
| What are your plans for finding a new job? Will you work in the same industry considering the plummeting job market? | I'm currently taking some time to consider all my options. The industry is rough. There's always that looming threat of getting laid off. And it sucks. I know there's no guarantee in any job. But I'm considering looking to other industries where my skills would be applicable. But if I get offered a great game industries job, I wouldn't turn it down. It's still a fun and exciting industry. The stability is just crap. |
| What was your favorite Zynga game? Slingo? Which games did you specifically work on and what did you do? | My favorites were Chess with Friends and Draw Something (1 and 2). |
| If you had to tell one story about zynga to deter all customers what would it be? | Honestly, the Customer Service at Zynga is pretty top notch. They always tried really hard to keep customers happy. They even held events where the rest of us helped out as CS on a few customer service tickets so that we could have a closer connection to our players. From those I learned that general rule was to verify purchases, but if you couldn't, just hook the player up with some free credits. You can tell if someone is scamming the system. But most people are just getting screwed by bugs in the game. So if you throw some premium currency at them, they're more than happy to keep playing. |
| A LOT of my friends stopped playing right after Zynga bought it, perhaps they are just tired of the game or it did get affected with the purchase by Zynga. | Whether or not people stopped playing because Zynga bought OMGPop was minimal. The problem was that they paid top dollar for a game/studio that had already hit their peak. At the time Zynga was on top of the world and had money to burn. They burned that money on a studio/game that held huge potential and didn't pan out. It's no fault of OMGPop. They cashed out at the best time possible. But Zynga had a tendency to buy better games than they could make. Zynga bought Words with Friends and Draw Something. I challenge you to name a game that they made that did better and is better known. There's one game that did better, but those two are the best known games and both were shitty money makers. |
| I know you guys copied some games that did pretty well. When it came to culture, how did you guys end up choosing which games to make? What kind of video game trends did you guys go by? | Money. What ever made the most money. That was the biggest factor. |
| Some new games in development were based on opportunity. Like looking at what makes money in consoles, but isn't represented in Mobile and trying to make the next big hit there. But at the same time, there's always something that hit the market first. So those were always hindered by what the predecessors had accomplished, "Well if X game made Y money, we could never make more than Y+Z" | |
| You seem pretty neutral and understanding of the situation, are you at all bitter about your time at the company? Are things better on the other side? | I hated Zynga going in. |
| Eventually I grew to be neutral. | |
| At a certain point I accepted being a corporate goon to make my own ends meet. | |
| Now that I've been released I feel relieved. It's hard being a part of a company hated by so many. I didn't love our games. And I always hoped the company could become something better than it was. In the end I was a cog in a big machine that broke down. | |
| Is the grass greener on the other side? I don't know yet. But I know that I'm not scared. I'm not afraid that I've lost the best opportunity of my career. I'm a little scared. But I can do a lot better, and I know it. | |
| What sort of education would one need to get into this line of work? | Depends on the job. |
| Artists, you don't need a degree. You need talent. | |
| Designers, you need experience and connections. Education helps, but experience is best. | |
| Programmers, you need talent and the ability to prove your worth, socially. (Many lack skills in communication and social etiquette.) Education is great, but acceptability (within a team) is best. | |
| Producers, you need exceptional communication and organizational talents. Education is good, but managerial talents are best. | |
| Clash of Clans on iOS is doing well.. supercell is making 1 mil a day off of microtransactions? | So much more than 1m a day from what I understand. Yes. Clash of Clans is doing well. That's the understatement of the year. |
| Reading this post reminds me of what I used to love about the Fucked Company website back in the day. You wouldn't happen to have any entertaining company emails or corporate memos to share, would you? | I don't have access to any of that stuff any more. But I remember one email that went around to the whole company. It was congratulating some team...RSM or something. They used a ridiculous amount of acronyms at Zynga and everyone on my team spent a few hours trying to figure out what the hell RSM stood for. |
| One of the best was when the Harlem Shuffle was a big deal for like a week. That video meme was everywhere. One person at the HQ suggested we do one, and at the time it was very early in the meme's popularity. Rather than spontaneously making the video, it became a whole production. The higher ups got involved, they gave it a budget to get a camera and crew. They wanted to send out emails to the company. They needed someone willing to organize everything. Once it started, emails were sent out asking for suggestions. Everyone put in their input about where we should film it. What we could do to be different. When we should shoot it. On and on and on it went. It took so long and no one could agree on anything that the process was like a 3 or 4 week ordeal. By the time the company got around to it, everyone hated the Harlem Shuffle. It was over done and obnoxious. When it was finally filmed and edited the whole thing was just a joke. It got posted on the company website and the video was made private. | |
| It was kind of a true testament to the way Zynga operates. See something popular. Try to hop on board. Spend way too much time and manpower agonizing over what should be a simple project. Fail horribly at it. Hide the failure from the world. | |
| Whenever I get an update to Chess with Friends or Words with Friends, is it really just a thinly veiled ruse to put new adds on the app? Because I don't feel like anything updates gamewise except the adds now. | No. Actually most games can get away with minor updates without making you choose to update. |
| For instance giving you new ads, that can happen without your permission. That's easy. | |
| Most updates are major updates to bug fixes. Or they are major feature changes that require updates to the code. | |
| The general rule is if it's an asset update, you can do it without forcing users to update. This means players can update things like character costumes and environment updates without forcing them to update. | |
| Data updates usually require some kind of code update. So the game will have fundamental code/feature updates that require the player to re-download the game to update. | |
| Do you play words with friends while working with your coworkers? | Yes. And I do consider my coworkers friends, if that's what you're asking. |
| Whats the % of stay at home moms / dads that play Zynga games, compared to those that don't? | That's kind of impossible to say. |
| Zynga can draw data on what people do in the game, but not who they are. | |
| You can tell if they are male/female and age range if they are signed into facebook. But you can't determine the employment and marital status of individual users. | |
| Also were you given a severence package? if so did you feel it fair? "departing employee" made it sound like you knew it was coming before i continued to read the letter. did you know you were getting laid off prior to the letter? | I did get a severance package (see previous reply). The letter came after I had been told by my boss I was getting laid off. I'd stood in a line for 30 minutes, and sat in a waiting room for almost two hours by the time I got that letter. |
| Where are you job hunting and how many of you are RoR developers? I need a few good engineers. | Not a programmer. Can't speak to RoR... |
| Did you ever imagine working at a social games company when you started working in the games industry? Were the people working there passionate or was it just like a normal job? | I never imagined working in games to start with. I fell into it. Social gaming didn't even exist when I started in the industry. Money is like gravity. You get drawn to the largest piles. |
| Yes. Some people were completely passionate about the industry and market. Social/casual/freemium gaming are things that some people love. Even the developers. Not everyone. I'm somewhere in the middle, I think. I understand the appeal, but I don't love the games. I tolerate them. The same could be said for online multiplayer versions of CoD for me. I don't love it, but I understand it. | |
| How easily will you find a new gig? I'm guessing somewhat easy, as much as I see mobile dev jobs on HN (my gig included, not games tho). | I hope it will be no problem...time will tell.. |
| I can't believe no one has asked this (and I'm probably too late), but what were the salaries? Can you say how much you were paid? | I'd point you to glassdoor.com for that. The salaries ranged wildly. I know I was on the low end of the pay grade for my position. But I knew people in their 20's making six figures who were definitely not in high-powered management positions. |
| Questions | Answers |
|---|---|
| So if he was making more than 500k it would be okay in your book? That's pretty messed up. | Seems like I'd be even more of a piece of shit if I was that successful. |
| Are you involved much with the general goings on of the casino? If so, what goes through your head when you see huge amounts of money being gambled away by someone who doesnt know when to walk away? | Yes, I'm an executive so I'm in touch with most everything that goes on. Most of the time when I see something like that, I just say "good for us" and try not to think about whether or not the person can afford it or not. |
| How much do you make a year? Unless you are making like $500,000+, then you are a piece of shit. you are destroying thousands of people's lives so that you can make a living and afford your bmw and other status symbols. | I don't make $500K a year so I guess that makes me a piece of shit. |
| What is the worst most tasteless thing you or the casino in general did to make money? | I, obviously, like to think I'm uber classy. But in general I think paycheck cashing promotions are pretty tasteless. E.g., Cash your paycheck and get 5% of the total value in free slot play. |
| Can you ELi5? Sorry, to me that just sounds like you hand over your $1000 you earned, and get back $50? Which seems wrong...? Or do you get an extra $50? Hmmm... Thoroughly confused myself. | Let's say your check is $1,000. The casino will cash your check and then also give you $50 in promotional credits to be used on the slot machines. The idea is that since we've given you some "free" money to begin playing the machines you will also dip into the $1,000 cash that we also handed you. |
| Are there any clauses that prevent you from just spending the $50 in free bets and cashing out the $1k without actually playing with it? | No, you get the $1K in cash and the $50 can only be used in the slot machine. I've done this once when I started my new job and my direct deposit wasn't set up yet so they issued me a live check. |
| How many people just walk directly out of the casino after cashing the check with their 5% bonus? | I don't know, I've never run this promotion but generally speaking when we give away promotional credits, the "walk rate" is in the 25% range. |
| How often do you go to the strip clubs in vegas? If you go how much do you spend? Do you get treated better if they know what your job is? | I really don't like them so not often unless someone is in town that wants to go. I don't have a moral objection, just think it's a waste. "Hey do you like to eat steak? Give me $20 to smell this delicious steak! No, you can't try it!!!". |
| So that having been said, I might spend $20 to give to the girls on the stage and maybe a lap dance. | |
| No, I don't get treated better because of my title really. They usually just care about how much money you spend and that's it. | |
| What are some sneaky strategies that you use to get people to spend more money? I don't mean obvious things like having ATMs...but things related specifically to gambling.. | Ummm... Off the top of my head I think the sneakiest thing is probably side bets on table games (e.g., play an extra $5 and if your two cards are a pair then you win $25) because the odds are terrible or things like advertising low table game limits but modifying the rules (e.g., blackjack pays 6:5 vs 3:2) to increase the house advantage. |
| Some casino customers are super cheap and only play $1 Blackjack. Others are whales and the casino spends a lot of money to attract them, but they are rare. Somewhere in between, I imagine, there are customers who spend a significant amount and exist in numbers to make most of the casino's profits. | First, we quantify most everything by "theoretical worth". That is, how much we can expect to win from you based on the house advantage of the game you play and how long you play. The general formula is decisions per hour X house advantage X hours played X average bet. So, $25/hand at blackjack X 1.5% house advantage X 2 hours played X 60 decisions per hour = $45 in theoretical worth. |
| Is that true? How much does a "bread and butter" customer gamble in a day? | Second, It really depends on the particular property. The number is a lot higher for Wynn then it would be at Joker's Wild (a really, really dumpy casino on the outskirts of Vegas). That having been said, most places will be very happy to have you if you are in the $150-300 a day in theoretical worth range. |
| That sounds pretty affordable. Assuming a 30% comp return I guess that comes out to $50-90 in comps a day. | 30% includes the stuff we send you in the mail generally too so at the $300 range you could expect a room and a meal a day. |
| What kind of awful rules are you using to have a 1.5% house advantage, or is that number based on the average player being really terrible? How much in comps would I actually generate for two hours of $25 a hand Blackjack? | I just threw the 1.5 number out there. We also factor in skill into house advantage so as to be more favorable to the player, comp wise. comp wise we'd probably give you 15% of the $45, or $6.75. That's just in what we call discretionary comps that the pit supervisor or host can give you. Then you could expect another 30% in the mail via free bets, hotel, food, etc. |
| I guess you need to register with the casino loyalty club so you know what we are spending. | Correct. |
| I currently reside in Arizona, where you can't swing a dead cat without hitting an Indian reservation and - as a result - a casino. | Well I've worked all over the country and, yes, of course we always keep an eye out on new competition that would impact our existing customer base, especially as the business has seen much more legalization in new jurisdictions in the past 20 years. |
| The casino/resorts are getting increasingly sophisticated. Better facilities, better entertainment, and better marketing. | For Vegas, I think most strip properties have dealt with this by investing in properties in regional markets so as to send their customers to their Vegas properties so it is pretty accretive. Someone from Harrah's Ak-Chin in the Phoenix area gets offers from Harrah's Las Vegas quite often. |
| Is this something the Vegas casinos consider a rising threat, welcome competition, or something else? How do you - as a marketing guy - react to the fact that a trip to a casino no longer necessarily means a trip to Nevada or New Jersey? | The bigger problem really is for the markets where they were a monopoly for some time and really rested on their laurels. Reno and Atlantic City come to mind. Those markets are dying fast and there really isn't much upside. In Atlantic City, for example, you have casinos buying competitors just to close them so as to reduce the inventory. |
| What really happens when somebody wins on a slot machine? Like, what is the behind the scenes stuff that we don't see? Are they checking out the cameras to make sure it was that specific person before they payout? What if you switch seats? What if an underage gambler wins?... What if they switch seats with an of-age gambler?? Honestly, I've never done that, but I've always wondered the underage stuff because I've never ever got carded on slots! I've won hand-pays before (nothing really exciting) and they always hit me with the tax form. What do you guys do with the tax form? Does it get sent out from you guys or does it remain my responsibility from thereon? | I worked as a slot analyst (analyzing machine performance) years ago and never on the floor so I don't know/remember the exact steps. Essentially, though, it's verifying that the machine is functioning properly and recording the details of the jackpot for audit/regulators. If it is a taxable jackpot ( >= $1,200) then we are required to fill out the IRS W2G form to report it to them for tax purposes so at that point we have to get your ID, etc. to facilitate that. Then of course, there is the matter of actually paying you the money, verifying that it is the correct amount, etc. The tax form does get sent to the IRS. You can request the taxes not be taken out of your jackpot as you are only taxed on the net win at the end of the year. |
| How did you get involved in the casino bussiness? | 1/2.) Just needed a job and applied to a very entry level job and worked my way up. |
| Did you set out to work at one or did it come about another way? | 3.) It can be fun and exciting. |
| What do you enjoy most about your job? Least? | 4.) There's a lot of pressure to make money/meet your budget so all of the bullshit that goes along with that. Dealing with politics, having to adjust staffing, etc. And I don't like that at my level the usual tenure is 2-3 years so you move around a lot. I'd like to be more settled, especially in a place I'd really want to live for a long time and I don't feel like I have much control of that in this business. |
| 1) When you talk about being moved around a lot, is that relating to being moved around in what you do at a particular casino? or more like which casino your working at? 2) Do you feel that your skills at this current job gives you fallback options should your tenure run out? ( Such as in other service based industries?) | 1.) I mean there is only one of me at every casino so if something happens whether I don't like where I work or what something different (e.g., more money) or they don't like me (shocking, it happens!) then the likelihood that I have to move is high, especially if I'm in a city that only has a handful of casinos. 2.) I obviously feel like my skills could take me anywhere! But in reality, it has been tough to change industries when I've tried. Usually places like hotels don't pay as much as casinos and look for more sales-related skills and restaurants don't really have marketing people except at the corporate office whereas my skills are more analytics-oriented. And both usually pay less than casinos. |
| time I went to Vegas (around 30 years ago) it still had that "mob" vibe. When I got married there in the 90s (I joke now that I gambled on marriage in Vegas and lost half my stuff) it was much more "corporate" and "family friendly." The "What Happens in Vegas" campaign seemed to try and change that perception. Do you think there's value in returning Vegas to a more "wise guy" kind of feel...playing up the classic vibe, or is it just a big collection of theme parks with gambling? | The problem with returning to that type of vibe is that it's difficult/impossible given how big the casinos are. Sure it was easy for Benny Binion to control everything and not be "corporate" when the old Horseshoe was literally 1/10th the size of MGM Grand. |
| What was UNLV like? Did you live in the dorms? It seems like a strange school where everyone commutes and there's no college life around the campus. What are the pros and cons of going there? | I went there for grad school so was older and had a wife and a house. It is definitely a commuter school so there's not a lot of school spirit. I went to undergrad a school with a huge, huge, huge, football program so it was a bit of a change for me. I also didn't find the students to be terribly bright (with exceptions, of course). On the upside, a lot of people like living in Vegas and the Hotel Administration College (where I went) has very, very good brand recognition. |
| Do you find people have lots of misconceptions about the casino industry? | That the games are rigged and that we love giving away a lot for nothing/little in return are probably the two biggest. |
| So what's up with prostitutes and the casinos? I understand that prostitution is illegal in Vegas, but that they're still there. Is it like the movies, where they're just hanging out in the casino bars waiting to be picked up? | Yes, they hang out at the bars and then there are services you can call and have them sent to your room. If it's overt, casino security will clear them out of the bar area but the vice cops generally focus on human trafficking kind of stuff. |
| As an insider, what do you think the job prospects are in the industry for someone with a similar education background, but no casino experience? | 1.) The industry relies heavily on industry experience so job prospects are good if you're willing to start in a low position and work you're way up. If you go to UNLV and get the degree I got and expect for some casino to make you a Director of VP with no experience then you're going to be very disappointed. |
| Is that just bizarre luck? | 2.) Bizarre luck. |
| What does the industry think about states with Indian reservations that prohibit casinos like Texas? | 3.) Definitely potential opportunity. I've read about that small tribe in Texas. It'll happen eventually in Texas. The people in Louisiana will not be happy, though. |
| Is it viewed as a potential opportunity for growth with a small tribe, more competition, or a wedge to open the state to gambling? | 4.) No problem! |
| For every average person out there, would you suggest not playing? I mean, in the sense that, it's just not a viable option? | Viable for what? Making consistent money? Then definitely not. If you are entertained by thrill of gambling and have the discretionary funds to do it, then by all means. |
| Aw okay! cool. Any idea why people do it? Is it just a thrill? Would being a "whale", make more of a difference? | For the people that do it for entertainment, it's the thrill of anticipation. |
| Was it hard getting a job with such a detailed degree? | My undergrad degree is pretty bland, political science, so it wasn't hard at first. I did my grad degree in casino management because I was living in Vegas, wanted to get an MBA, didn't want to take 2 years off from work to get a full-time degree, didn't have the support of my job to get an executive MBA, and didn't like UNLV's MBA program. |
| EDIT: Thanks for answering my first AMA question! Really good answer too! | NP! Keep asking away! |
| What's your favorite aspect of your job? And do you like to gamble yourself? | 1.) It can be exciting. Picking new acts to play in your showroom seems more exciting to me than selling propane. 2.) Yes... |
| What is the best way for tourist to get the best bang for buck in your casino for entertainment, food, gambling etc to have a good time and not go broke? | I'm currently working at a Vegas strip property. |
| If you can answer in terms of Vegas, that would be great also. | Unless you have something more specific in mind, the first place I'd direct you to is the Las Vegas Advisor Top 10 Deals List. |
| With legal online poker gaining momentum which might mean eventual legal online gambling for other house games online; are the casinos doing what they can to kill this before it starts or your thoughts on this? | Las Vegas Sands / Venetian is actively trying to kill it (which I don't really understand) but everyone just sees it as a means to make more money so are ready to pounce when it's legal. |
| I don't know if you're still answering questions, but what are the qualifications for being, say, a Texas Hold'em Dealer in Vegas, specifically your casino, and are the dealers specific to just one game? I.e. omaha, hold 'em, pai gow, stud... Also, without being too specific, what is the average annual income for said occupation? Are the dealers payed solely by tips/do they get to keep all tips? | 1.) Generally there are poker dealers and table games (e.g., blackjack) dealers. Few do both. Among the table games dealers, most know multiple games as the more you know the more hirable you are. In terms of the qualifications it's just that you've gone to some sort of dealer school (there are commercial ones and some casinos do it in-house), experience, and a live audition. 2.) Really depends on the market and the casino. At the high end like Wynn or Venetian they will do close to $100K/year but at an entry-level place it could be more like $25K/year. It's base salary plus pooled tips (aka tokes). |
| 3.) You've never thought of dealing the WSOP? They need as many dealers as they can find. | |
| Do Casino's design their decor for different target groups? | Of course. Hard Rock and Cosmo are designed for younger demographics and Wynn and Venetian for older affluent ones. |
| I find all Casino's to be outright horrible to my senses due to the noise/flashing lights. | Encore and the new Barrymore are definitely designed for the Asian gambler. And you'd, obviously, have to assume the casinos in Macau are, too, although I've never been. |
| Could you describe your typical work day? also I've had some great times a Joker's Wild! | Ha! I honed my dice skills at JW! |
| Typical work day is get to work and look at the previous day's financial results and react accordingly. I.e., ask the analysts to pull numbers, talk to the head of a certain department about their opinion on something, etc. | |
| Emails emails emails. | |
| Then it's usually a lot of meetings about upcoming things whether it be planning an event, approving new advertising, doing the strategic planning for the property for 2015, meeting with vendors, etc. | |
| Emails emails emails. | |
| By this time the numbers or reports I've asked to be run are ready so I sit down and look at them and act accordingly (e.g., hey, looks like we're spending too much on postage to mail to customers too far away, let's change the way we do this for next time), etc. | |
| Emails emails emails. | |
| Then it's usually time to go home but 2-3 times a week I'll have a dinner or event to go to with a vendor or colleague or someone from the press. | |
| Emails emails emails. | |
| Probably 2-3 Saturdays a month I'll go in and work for a few hours just to catch up on stuff or if there's an event to meet and greet players, make sure everything is going well, etc. | |
| Emails emails emails. | |
| Has the rise of 6:5 blackjack been hurting the game's popularity, or are there enough people who don't "get" the odds change (or don't care) that it all works out in the end? Is the odds change enough to swing the game back in the casino's favor in the long run even if players count cards? And what about continuous shuffling machines: have any of the casinos you've been with used them, and how did the players react? | The masses don't care about either especially if you're able to offer low limits. The limit and the number of decks is what attracts people to a bj game. Still never going to allow counting. |
| Is is harder to get jobs in the background or management functions of the casino? | Well certainly there are more what we call "front of house" positions (dealers, porters, servers, bartenders, etc.) than "back of house" positions (accountants, IT, warehouse, etc.) so in terms of pure numbers, yes it's easier to get -any- FOH than -any- BOH position. |
| I'm an IT grad looking to move back to Vegas and wondered if there were more "non-floor" jobs than actually functional jobs. | That having been said, if you're wanting an IT position shouldn't be too hard if you're willing to work anywhere and have a little experience. If you're wanting to just jump into the CIO job at Bellagio, more difficult. |
| Great! thank you. I've got about 8 years under my belt, but dear god...no CIO for me. This really eased my worry about options. thanks. | You should be OK as long as you're not too picky. |
| Just how rigged are the automatic roulette machines? | They aren't. The games have to go through pretty rigorous testing by the state or an agency of the state to be allowed to be sold. Gaming Labs International is one such company. |
| I would think that SEO campaigns and similar web based marketing would be ineffective techniques for a casino in a place like Las Vegas. Is this the case? I know I'm quite late but I would love to know if you have time. | We definitely do SEO/SEM campaigns but primarily for hotel related keywords for people looking for hotel rooms. I worked at a place a little outside of the main city in the south one time and we'd buy broader search terms for people looking for "entertainment in main city" in case they didn't know there was a casino nearby. |
| Thanks for the response. I was just curious about engaging people in person in public? Do you operate campaigns on the street such as call to action flyers or similar? Are there laws specific to this type of promotion in Las Vegas? | Not a typical marketing channel most casinos explore, but it's not entirely unheard of. Sorry I'm not entirely sure of the laws. |
| Who owns the casino you work at? Is it one guy or a publicly traded company? | I'd rather not say as I don't want to be outted but I have worked for large publicly traded companies, privately held companies (e.g., owned by hedge funds), and publicly traded companies where one individual owns the majority of the shares. I've never worked at a privately owned casino owned by one individual, though. |
| How do I get over 65 year olds excited about my product? | Without knowing what said product is, the best thing I can say is to figure out how to make it relevant to them. |
| What does a marketing exec. at a casino make a year? | Depends on the size of the property. 75 at a small riverboat casino to 250 at a large place like Bellagio. |
| To succeed in marketing, what is the first step to landing a successful job? and what should be the over arching goal in mind to maintain a competitive advantage over fellow competition as well as new shifts in market trends? | 1.) be tenacious. take any job you can get. be a sponge and learn everything you can. |
| 2a.) don't be afraid to fail, but be smart (and profitable) about it. | |
| 2b.) don't rest on your laurels. stay in touch with your customers. | |
| Go on ... What does a casino do in that regard? | From a gambling standpoint, people in that age range like penny slots so we offer a lot of penny slots. We put on shows that would appeal to them. We would make the decor more classic vs hip. Etc. |
| I've always wanted to work in the gaming industry. I have a strong sales background and a B.S. degree... which department would you recommend to get my feet wet? | Probably player development which is the department that deals with VIP guests or maybe special events/promotions. |
| What's the best movie you've seen this year? You did say we could talk about life in general... | Absolutely! 12 Years a Slave. |
| Edit: Also, Dallas Buyer's Club. | |
| Dang, haven't seen it yet...will have to wait for it on DVD or streaming. Edit: Haven't seen that one either. I'm starting look like a Philistine. | It's pretty heavy but sometimes that's good. |
| Do you prefer to market for families or adults? Casinos are adult fun, but I've noticed a shift in the past decade. | Definitely adults. |
| Your AMA was one of the best, you answered almost every question, so if you're still answering here's one: If a young person comes in and wins more than 100k and then just leaves, would you suspect him/her of anything? | It really depends more on the manner in which you win and how you behave. We're required by law to fill out a Currency Transaction Report for transactions over $10,000. So if you got to that point you would have already given us your ID, etc. We'd obviously make sure that surveillance is watching you to make sure you're not cheating but if you're on a random hot streak and betting $10K/hand then it wouldn't be a huge deal at most strip properties. |
| How about a free load just this once? lol. But hypothetically what would 10 grand get you :( | At my place, (which is not an uber classy place like Wynn or Venetian), you'd get pretty much whatever you'd want. Suite, dinners, limo from the airport, show tickets, etc. We'd generally reinvest in you 30% of your loss so just figure out what $3,000 in comps would get you. |
| What advice can you give to new grads who want to get into marketing, but can get work due to lack of experience? | As I mentioned in a previous post, I believe you really just need to be tenacious and take anything to get your foot in the door. It's a very crowded field, especially on the what I call "pretty picture" side of marketing. I wish I had a more specific answer to give you. |
| What does being a marketing executive involve? | I usually say I'm in charge of driving profitable revenue. The departments that report up to me are charge of advertising, promotions, entertainment, public relations, direct mail/database marketing, and VIP marketing. |
| I'm coming to Vegas in December from Australia, can you PM me your email address? | Just PM me. Happy to see if I can help |
| Do casinos hire interns? I'm currently a student at a public university. | Absolutely. I think most of the major companies have management training/internship programs. Go to their careers websites. Caesars Entertainment, MGM International, Pinnacle Entertainment, Penn National Gaming, etc. |
| Would you recommend a job in marketing? what skill sets would be helpful for marketing? i'm interested in it but not entirely sure what it's about. | I think the best combination in today's world is to be more right brained with a creative bent as more and more the question asked of marketing folks is "quantify how your idea makes me money?" and less and less "what's the most most creative idea you have?" |
| It's a crowded field especially on the left brained side (e.g., advertising and public relations) because people think it's "cool". So if that's you're interest, I'd say being tenacious and creative is what is going to get you far in that world because it's tough to get your foot in the door and you have to have thick skin and then when you do get your foot in the door you are going to have a very short leash to prove yourself. | |
| Any specific company you recommend? | If you're at the intern stage, apply liberally. |
| Do you have the sides backwards, or do I? | Um, well I think of left brained as creative and right brain analytical? |
| How selective is the casino management program at UNLV? | The hotel management program in general is not selective but the casino management program is difficult because it's pretty quantitatively-focused so there's a lot of attrition. |
| What do you do for family entertainment in Vegas? | I'm single so that having been said, there's all your typical family stuff to do here: parks, camping, hiking, movies, bowling, etc. |
| You don't have any family in Vegas? What's something that you go do with your friends, then? | I'm not from here and my ex-wife hated living here thus why she's my ex. My friends and I go and see concerts, go to bars, we like guns so go shooting sometimes, and most Sundays cook for each other. |
| Sounds like a nice life! | It's OK. City is kind of soulless and superficial. |
| One of my favorite aspects of Vegas is that if you want your experience to improve, it's usually a strategic $20 tip away... whether that be a tip to upgrade your room when you check in, to skip the long line at a club, to get a table with a great view at dinner... What potential 'Experience' improvements would you recommend in Vegas? | Link to thetwentydollartrick.com |
| Vegas or Macau. Which is better? | Better for what? |
| Have you read The Stars My Destination by Alfred Bester? | I haven't. |
| So basically I should just buy from the half off kiosks? | Yes. |
| How do you feel about those who are addicted to gambling and those who have lost everything because of it? | Bad, obviously. |
| Late to this ama, are you still taking questions? | Sure! |
| Sure buddy. | Do you mean to say that you don't believe me? |
| I just got started in hospitality marketing, any advice? | Doing what, exactly? Just be willing to make not a lot of money for awhile and be willing to relocate frequently if you want to move up the ladder. I guess those are the first things that come to mind. |
| Have you had any good marketing ideas that you couldn't do due to marketing regulation. | Not necessarily due to regulation but a lot of times you're gun-shy to do a promotion because well, what happens if no one shows up? |
| Bastard. | Danka. |
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